Where can I purchase high quality ESP32 development boards with the most recent version of silicon (rev 1, I believe)?

[Leitukey]

This whole discussion does not make much sense.

Then why are you engaging in this discussion? Feel free to disengage.

It's a very amusing thread.

You made a few valuable comments early on in this thread. I appreciated them and acknowledged them. Thank you for them.

But since then you have contributed a steady stream of inane, self-centred comments which have detracted from the overall discussion. Being self-centred blinds you to seeing issues from the perspective of others. Being self-centred is not funny. It is not merely sad and pathetic but it is actually dangerous and despicable.

Please refrain from posting further comments to this thread.

[WiFive]

Official hardware catalog is easily found at: http://espressif.com/en/products/hardware

The complaint that silicon revisions are hard to identify is valid.

The fact that the official devkitc and other similar boards do not fit a standard breadboard is unfortunate, but mostly constrained by the footprint of official wroom32 module. Huzzah32 managed to make it fit, but they have in house assembly and QC. The fact that wide breadboards such as AD-102 can easily solve this makes it a minor inconvenience.

If you are a planning a high volume production espressif will probably make you custom prototypes. If not you will go crazy trying to do HW without a hacker/tinkerer mentality.

[meowsqueak]

Leitukey you could always make your own board. Then you'll be in complete control of parts, PCB size, track routing, power supply, USB/UART bridge, silicon version, etc.

Alternatively, just buy the WROOM module and directly connect it to your own circuits.

[Leitukey]

Official hardware catalog is easily found at: http://espressif.com/en/products/hardware

As mentioned previously several times in this thread this http://espressif.com/en/products/hardwa ... c/overview is available for sale on Amazon.com by Olimex. The reviews are not positive enough for me.

The complaint that silicon revisions are hard to identify is valid.

The complaint is obviously valid to any right-minded person who has tried to purchase a development board online from the vendors mentioned previously in this thread quickly finds out.

As I have opined numerous times in this thread, the fault here lies clearly with the CEO of Espressif. It would be remarkably easy for the CEO of Espressif to ask, say, his head of marketing to create a page on the Espressif website with links to vendors selling current silicon revisions.

This is not a trivial oversight. Companies like Apple, Google, and Facebook spend vast sums of time and money wooing third party developers. The CEO of Espressif is clearly unfit for his position.

The fact that the official devkitc and other similar boards do not fit a standard breadboard is unfortunate,

Chance, luck,or fortune play no part whatsoever in this. Again, it would be remarkably easy for the CEO of Espressif to ask, say, his head of marketing to create a page on the Espressif website with links to vendors selling current silicon revisions which also explains whether or not they fit on standard breadboards.

but mostly constrained by the footprint of official wroom32 module.

A better characterization would have, "The footprint of the official wroom32 module requires PCB manufacturers meet tight tolerances in order to create a PCB which will both accommodate the wroom32 module and fit on a standard breadboard."

Huzzah32 managed to make it fit, but they have in house assembly and QC.

It would be remarkably easy for the CEO of Espressif to ask, say, his head of marketing to create a page on the Espressif website that explains this fact. Why not divulge such information to third party developers?

The fact that wide breadboards such as AD-102 can easily solve this makes it a minor inconvenience.

I disagree. To someone like me who is coming to hardware as a "newbie" this stuff is "all Greek to me." It would be remarkably easy for the CEO of Espressif to ask, say, his head of marketing to create a page on the Espressif website clearly explaining all of this, as giving a link to the "newbie third party developer kit" which would include links to:

High Quality ESP32 Developer Boards
with details about the silicon version, types of breadboards they fit on, and whether they require soldering skills to attach the headers or no soldering skills because the headers are already soldered to them.

This stuff might be "obvious" to you, but the ESP32 (and Arduino) are bringing in the "unwashed masses" (like me) who prefer to plug stuff together to build a prototype and then order PCB/PCBA from one of the many inexpensive low volume/low cost Chinese shops that typically aggregate PCB/PCBA orders to allow them to have them produced cost-effectively.

Breadboard
Obvious to you? Yeah. I thought so. Guess what? I have never purchased a breadboard! Do I really want to try to figure out which breadboard to buy? No. I do not.

It would be remarkably easy for the CEO of Espressif to ask, say, his head of marketing to create a page on the Espressif website with a simple explanation about the various types of breadboards and which ones were suitable for which ESP32 Developer Boards.

Too dumbed down for you? Then I suggest you take a look at the recent history of hardware and software and realize it keeps getting "dumbed down" (the phrase I prefer is "user friendly") so that non-geeks can readily access this stuff. Why should software developers learn to solder? It is unnecessary! Arduino has proven that by copying the Legos "snap it together" model.

Common Hardware
USB cables
Speakers
Thermistors
Cameras
Etcetera

It would be remarkably easy for the CEO of Espressif to ask, say, his head of marketing to create a page on the Espressif website with links to vendors selling hardware I can plug into an ESP32 development board.

The CEO of Espressif could instruct his head of marketing to put up some MicroPython tutorials (or links to MicroPython tutorials). Software developers don't generally know much about the "nuts and bolts" of the hardware inside of a PC yet they program on it. In case you have not realized it yet, the ESP32 is essentially a really limited PC which should not require software developers do do much more than snap a few pieces together, just like attaching, saying a printer, keyboard, and monitor to an ordinary PC.

The days of "embedded programmers" writing C on PIC chips are rapidly coming to an end. MicroPython and the ESP32 (as well as Arduino) have fundamentally changed the game.

If you are a planning a high volume production espressif will probably make you custom prototypes.

I do not intend to purchase any products from Espressif besides the ESP32 modules.

If not you will go crazy trying to do HW without a hacker/tinkerer mentality.

I doubt your assertion will turn out to be correct.

Espressif will either change to become more "newbie third party developer friendly" or soon be pushed out of the market by a startup which creates a company that is newbie third party developer friendly.

Do you realize how much money VCs (venture capitalists) are sitting on in the USA? Do you really think no one in Silicon Valley is eyeing Espressif as an easy mark to take down? Do you know that the "silicon" in Silicon Valley stands for? HP, Google, Apple, Facebook, and of course Intel have many thousands of world class hardware engineers. You don't think any of them could be enticed to work at a startup that was determined to build a "better ESP32."

Espressif is essentially advertising, "Here is a huge new market we have pioneered! It is really exciting! See! But we don't really want to take care of third party developers! Please, please, please come and push us out of business!"

The CEO of Espressif is clearly unfit for his position and should be replaced within the next 30 days.

I hope that some of the key investors in Espressif read this thread and use it as part of their argument to replace the CEO of Espressif.

By the way, I am not suggesting the CEO of Espressif be fired. Not at all. He might make an excellent CTO or Director of Engineering. I think the "Peter Principle" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle might be at work here. Be that as it may, the of CEO of Espressif is so remarkably lacking in marketing acumen that he obviously needs to be replaced and will be replaced: either by another CEO at Espressif or de facto by the CEO of the competitor which comes along and pushes Espressif out of this market.

[Leitukey]

Leitukey you could always make your own board.

Then you'll be in complete control of parts, PCB size, track routing, power supply, USB/UART bridge, silicon version, etc.

Alternatively, just buy the WROOM module and directly connect it to your own circuits.

Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions. I assume you mean well. I honestly do.

Yet you have failed to address the essence of the criticisms I have launched against the CEO of Espressif. I have been acquainted with many well-intentioned engineers who optimistically yet naively attempt to defuse "people problems" with "technological fixes."

The CEO of Espressif is unfit for the position he currently occupies. The evidence is irrefutable. Within the next 24 months I predict he will either be replaced internally by another CEO of Espressif or externally by the CEO of a competitor which pushes Espressif out of this market.

Frankly I would like to see a Silicon Valley startup company push Espressif out of the market for several reasons. One of those reasons is the predominant "corporate culture" in Silicon Valley, particularly amongst startups, tends to be very friendly to third party developers. I do not think a similar sort of corporate culture exists to any significant extent in East Asia.

East Asian business culture are varied. Japan is very different than, say, Indonesia. But they all seem to have an attitude of, "We are big, we are powerful, we will do what we want!" Despite Espressif's purported "open-source attitude" I think that is little more than a marketing slogan.

The "we are big do and powerful..." attitude is generally a very ineffective way to run a cutting edge technology company these days unless that company has very significant government and/or intellectual property (such as patent protection and trade secrets). Samsung, for example, is essentially part of the South Korean government. They receive very significant assistance from the government in Seoul.

The CEO of Samsung leveraged strong relationship into a very lucrative alliance with Google which enabled them essentially the government in Seoul, Samsung, and Google to compete very effectively against Apple. Despite Apple's huge market cap, it is little more than a brand (like Coca-Cola or Nike) which could easily lose much of its value if it lost its popularity. Samsung and Google, on the other hand have much very valuable intellectual property which provide them with remarkably huge competitive advantages.

I do not know if Espressif has significant amounts of either of those forms of protection, but I would guess that they probably do not. I would guess a couple of dozen top hardware engineers in Silicon Valley could build a prototype of cheaper better chip than the ESP32 within 18 months.

The combination of finance, management, technical, and marketing expertise (listed in order of importance) that exists in Silicon Valley likely makes Espressif's position in the ESP32 market precarious. I presume Espressif's key investors are well aware of this. But Espressif's key investors probably are unaware that Espressif's unfit CEO makes its position in the ESP32 market very precarious.

[WiFive]

This thread is developing a very clickbaity, keyword spammy, infowarsy character.

BREADBOARD HATING CEO UNFIT, MUST GO! DOZENS OF NEWBIES PROTEST! COMPANY DOOMED!

there we go.

[Leitukey]

This thread is...

intended for serious discourse.

Please refrain my making inane comments. They are unwelcome distractions at the very least. Furthermore, if you do not like the contents of this thread then I encourage to start your own thread.

I have seen many tech companies with the latest "bright shiny object" come onto the scene with lots of hype and hoopla quickly and quietly disappear with nary more than a harried "adieu" to the so-called community they had cultivated. Espressif seems seems like that type of company.

Finance, management, technology, and marketing all need to be aligned for a tech company to "cross the chasm" as the cool kids say these days. Espressif has good technology but poor management and poor marketing. Poor management alone will generally lead to the demise of almost any organization. Adding poor marketing typically makes the demise swifter.

I have a bad feeling about Espressif. At the moment I am leaning towards abandoning my plans of designing a product around the ESP32.

[BuddyCasino]

This is a gold mine. Someone please make a Markov chain out of those rants.

[riklaunim]

criticisms I have launched against the CEO of Espressif.

I wonder how Microsoft CEO stands all that criticism... oh what - their software is provided "as is" and with no responsibility on how it works for you. The same with hardware. If you use ESP32 module the Espressif is not obliged to do anything. They can provide things but they aren't obliged to. Even more they can't oblige third party to provide specific boards if third party doesn't want to oblige (a.k.a certification process).

The CEO of Espressif is unfit for the position he currently occupies. The evidence is irrefutable. Within the next 24 months I predict he will either be replaced internally by another CEO of Espressif or externally by the CEO of a competitor which pushes Espressif out of this market.

You or me are no one, don't matter for CEO of any company. I assume they even have a laugh at this thread. 24 months is kind of a long period of time though. I was expecting 24h or something of that nature

Competitor may arise but it success will only be based on the product quality and not CEO or boards made by third party. Look at STM SPWF04S - that's a "direct" ESP32 competitor. Good luck finding community or easy access to single units of those things (and you can forged about third party dev boards). STM is bigger and more experienced company...

Frankly I would like to see a Silicon Valley startup company push Espressif out of the market for several reasons. One of those reasons is the predominant "corporate culture" in Silicon Valley, particularly amongst startups, tends to be very friendly to third party developers. I do not think a similar sort of corporate culture exists to any significant extent in East Asia.

Old Silicon Valley is old and with the educational problems of the US new Silicon Valleys are created in Asia. New Espressif is more likely to pop out in India or China (or Europe) than in US. China based companies tend to have big problems when communicating with English speaking community but Espressive is doing it much better than some other companies I know.

Despite Espressif's purported "open-source attitude" I think that is little more than a marketing slogan.

You have a nice and open SDK. From what I heard it's very nicely done.

a couple of dozen top hardware engineers in Silicon Valley could build a prototype of cheaper better chip than the ESP32 within 18 months.

STM had years, Atmel had years, NXP had years... but they didn't. Espressif was first to the market with ESP8266 and now with ESP32 and that's why they succeeded. It's inevitable that there will be competitor chips but they won't be first to the market.


As for third party boards and stuff. I use few, all of them work. Olimex seems to also do a good job - but I would rather not trust Amazon for reviews of such non-consumer product. Even on laptops I was looking through the reviews are always user biased - how do a laptop fit given person needs and expectations
Right now in the company I work for we are in the process of designing two PCBs with ESP32 module. Prototypes were made mostly with the most crude protyping board - http://blob.tomerweller.com/assets/esp3 ... eakout.png - no usb, no breadboard options

Breadboard friendly hack of a wide board:

breadboard.jpg (118.53 KiB) Viewed 10348 times

Also for things like dual pin header boards you can use female pinout and point it up, like MicroPython PyBoard. Or like Arduino or Nucleo - big PCB with female pin headers.

[martinayotte]

a couple of dozen top hardware engineers in Silicon Valley could build a prototype of cheaper better chip than the ESP32 within 18 months.

STM had years, Atmel had years, NXP had years... but they didn't. Espressif was first to the market with ESP8266 and now with ESP32 and that's why they succeeded. It's inevitable that there will be competitor chips but they won't be first to the market.

That reminds me that TI firmware scandal about CC3000 few years ago, which wasn't able to run a simple TCP server more than an hour, hanging forever until power recycle. TI employees didn't answer posts on their forum about that issue for months, and finally answered 8 months later that CC3000 isn't supported any more and new designs should use their newer CC3100.